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	<title>Comments on: Close-Mindedness, Open-Mindedness, and Meta-Systemic Thinking</title>
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	<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/</link>
	<description>Trapped within my own mind</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Back to the Future? at Writer&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-3974</link>
		<dc:creator>Back to the Future? at Writer&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 16:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-3974</guid>
		<description>[...] Wow, a comment that revived an old entry has caused me to realize just how much I miss discussing philosophy. I think I may have to break out my Francis Schaeffer anthology soon and get the ol&#8217; noodle back into the thick of things again. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wow, a comment that revived an old entry has caused me to realize just how much I miss discussing philosophy. I think I may have to break out my Francis Schaeffer anthology soon and get the ol&#8217; noodle back into the thick of things again. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-3973</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 16:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-3973</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment, devnull.  Wow.  Talk about bringing a long-dead topic back to life.  :)

I do think that the definitions you provide are what are considered the ideal, what the words are _supposed_ to mean.  The biggest problem I have, however, is that a good many of the very same people who claim to be open-minded are the ones who will quickly say, "Your opinion/belief/value-system is just as valid as mine, so I cannot tell you that you are wrong and I am right, because truth is relative."  This is a philosophical and ideological stance that 1) I cannot abide and 2) simply does not make sense, even within itself.  These sort of open-minded people claim to evaluate and assess in search of truth when in reality they are simply attempting to keep from rocking the boat, unaware all the while that the boat has a leak and is slowly sinking into the depths.  I've never understood how anyone who truly claims to be an evaluator of what is true and what is not can come to the conclusion that everyone's beliefs and views are equally valid as the next, particularly when there are clear cases of truth and untruth, thesis and antithesis, held in juxtaposition to one another.  Hence my rant against this supposed ideal of being open-minded.  Perhaps what is needed is clearer definitions and more precise terms for these various approaches to the understanding of truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, devnull.&nbsp; Wow.&nbsp; Talk about bringing a long-dead topic back to life.&nbsp; :)</p>
<p>I do think that the definitions you provide are what are considered the ideal, what the words are <em>supposed</em> to mean.&nbsp; The biggest problem I have, however, is that a good many of the very same people who claim to be open-minded are the ones who will quickly say, &#8220;Your opinion/belief/value-system is just as valid as mine, so I cannot tell you that you are wrong and I am right, because truth is relative.&#8221;  This is a philosophical and ideological stance that 1) I cannot abide and 2) simply does not make sense, even within itself.&nbsp; These sort of open-minded people claim to evaluate and assess in search of truth when in reality they are simply attempting to keep from rocking the boat, unaware all the while that the boat has a leak and is slowly sinking into the depths.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve never understood how anyone who truly claims to be an evaluator of what is true and what is not can come to the conclusion that everyone&#8217;s beliefs and views are equally valid as the next, particularly when there are clear cases of truth and untruth, thesis and antithesis, held in juxtaposition to one another.&nbsp; Hence my rant against this supposed ideal of being open-minded.&nbsp; Perhaps what is needed is clearer definitions and more precise terms for these various approaches to the understanding of truth.</p>
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		<title>By: devnull</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-3961</link>
		<dc:creator>devnull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Aug 2006 20:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-3961</guid>
		<description>This is a very late comment, I know.  I found this blog-entry while surfing the web after a two-day email argument with members of my writers' group.  One member is a close friend of mind, through which I joined the writers' group.  I had considered this friend close-minded for not being willing to watch a TV program I had raved about.  I thought your article was a very interesting idea, but I question whether open-mindedness and close-mindedness really represent degrees of 'mindedness' on a continuum with meta-systemic thinking being in the middle.  For one thing, tolerance and open-mindedness are too completely different concepts.  Tolerance is allowing others to hold views and make life choices different from you.  Open-mindedness, on the other hand, is the willingness to consider other points of view for evaluation.  Unfortunately, the 'consider' and 'evaluation' parts of the definition are lost all too often to many people.  The word 'consider' gets equated with 'embrace'. Too many people make the mistake of thinking that if you are open-minded, it means you embrace any and every position or available life choice you encounter, no matter how far-fetched or  irrational that position  or choice is.  The conclusion that follows is  all views and choices have the same merit, which is not at all what being open-minded is all about.  It is instead, the willingness to think through those views and choices.  The mind is still required to do the work required in the evaluation process.  And  at the end, the idea or choice will be assigned positive or negative value.  So it is possible to be open-minded enough to consider a view and then reject it after you have gone through the work of evaluating it.

Close-mindedness, on the other hand is about rejecting a viewpoint without going through any work of evaluation.  There is not attempt to use any tools of assessment.  It is rejected out of hand simply for being alien to the mind encountering it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very late comment, I know.&nbsp; I found this blog-entry while surfing the web after a two-day email argument with members of my writers&#8217; group.&nbsp; One member is a close friend of mind, through which I joined the writers&#8217; group.&nbsp; I had considered this friend close-minded for not being willing to watch a TV program I had raved about.&nbsp; I thought your article was a very interesting idea, but I question whether open-mindedness and close-mindedness really represent degrees of &#8216;mindedness&#8217; on a continuum with meta-systemic thinking being in the middle.&nbsp; For one thing, tolerance and open-mindedness are too completely different concepts.&nbsp; Tolerance is allowing others to hold views and make life choices different from you.&nbsp; Open-mindedness, on the other hand, is the willingness to consider other points of view for evaluation.&nbsp; Unfortunately, the &#8216;consider&#8217; and &#8216;evaluation&#8217; parts of the definition are lost all too often to many people.&nbsp; The word &#8216;consider&#8217; gets equated with &#8216;embrace&#8217;. Too many people make the mistake of thinking that if you are open-minded, it means you embrace any and every position or available life choice you encounter, no matter how far-fetched or  irrational that position  or choice is.&nbsp; The conclusion that follows is  all views and choices have the same merit, which is not at all what being open-minded is all about.&nbsp; It is instead, the willingness to think through those views and choices.&nbsp; The mind is still required to do the work required in the evaluation process.&nbsp; And  at the end, the idea or choice will be assigned positive or negative value.&nbsp; So it is possible to be open-minded enough to consider a view and then reject it after you have gone through the work of evaluating it.</p>
<p>Close-mindedness, on the other hand is about rejecting a viewpoint without going through any work of evaluation.&nbsp; There is not attempt to use any tools of assessment.&nbsp; It is rejected out of hand simply for being alien to the mind encountering it.</p>
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		<title>By: Progressive at Writer&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1767</link>
		<dc:creator>Progressive at Writer&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1767</guid>
		<description>[...] Of course, conservative and liberal are two extremes in a somewhat linear system.1 I think Scott Garber stated it best when he said in one issue of his newsletter that we should not be liberal, conservative, or moderate, but rather we should be progressive, striving always to improve our thinking and improve the cultural, social, and religious systems in which we live. My biggest gripe with true liberals, conservatives, and moderates alike is that so often they fail to actually use the grey matter encapsulated within their skulls. Too often I see and hear people spout the standard party line that is typical of whatever ideology they follow, and I wonder if they have ever really thought that ideology through to its logical conclusion. Mind you, I don&#8217;t expect that everyone who thinks through an issue will automatically arrive at the same conclusions I have, since everyone starts from a slightly different set of presuppositions. But I would hope that by engaging in metasystemic thinking, one would be able to revise and alter those presuppositions and, by association, the accompanying conclusions based from those presuppositions. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Of course, conservative and liberal are two extremes in a somewhat linear system.1 I think Scott Garber stated it best when he said in one issue of his newsletter that we should not be liberal, conservative, or moderate, but rather we should be progressive, striving always to improve our thinking and improve the cultural, social, and religious systems in which we live. My biggest gripe with true liberals, conservatives, and moderates alike is that so often they fail to actually use the grey matter encapsulated within their skulls. Too often I see and hear people spout the standard party line that is typical of whatever ideology they follow, and I wonder if they have ever really thought that ideology through to its logical conclusion. Mind you, I don&#8217;t expect that everyone who thinks through an issue will automatically arrive at the same conclusions I have, since everyone starts from a slightly different set of presuppositions. But I would hope that by engaging in metasystemic thinking, one would be able to revise and alter those presuppositions and, by association, the accompanying conclusions based from those presuppositions. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: spanishtigress88</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1374</link>
		<dc:creator>spanishtigress88</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 May 2005 22:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1374</guid>
		<description>wow thats alot I didn't know</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow thats alot I didn&#8217;t know</p>
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		<title>By: SeismicMike</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1373</link>
		<dc:creator>SeismicMike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2005 13:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1373</guid>
		<description>Oh boy, I've found myself mulling over this one recently. This is a GREAT post</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh boy, I&#8217;ve found myself mulling over this one recently. This is a GREAT post</p>
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		<title>By: YOYOY008</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1372</link>
		<dc:creator>YOYOY008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2005 20:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1372</guid>
		<description>'Don't let your mind be so open that your brain falls out.'</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Don&#8217;t let your mind be so open that your brain falls out.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: poetrose</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1371</link>
		<dc:creator>poetrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 12:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1371</guid>
		<description>RYC - Hey, I learned to play pac man and Tron when I was 18 and they had just came out. My son is into those Mec Warriors and Yugio stuff and I figure if I read the books, I'll get into the groove. Ha!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RYC &#8211; Hey, I learned to play pac man and Tron when I was 18 and they had just came out. My son is into those Mec Warriors and Yugio stuff and I figure if I read the books, I&#8217;ll get into the groove. Ha!</p>
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		<title>By: poetrose</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1370</link>
		<dc:creator>poetrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 11:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1370</guid>
		<description>I had to blog ya today...you have influenced me...good or bad remains to be seen! Smile. I just checked out from my school library, Halo, The Fall of Reach by Eric Nylund. I am gonna read it over my long weekend and get myself enlightened. Also saw some previews for Star Wars, getting pumped. Thanks for the influence. Smile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had to blog ya today&#8230;you have influenced me&#8230;good or bad remains to be seen! Smile. I just checked out from my school library, Halo, The Fall of Reach by Eric Nylund. I am gonna read it over my long weekend and get myself enlightened. Also saw some previews for Star Wars, getting pumped. Thanks for the influence. Smile.</p>
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		<title>By: poetrose</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1369</link>
		<dc:creator>poetrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 15:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1369</guid>
		<description>Wow! I have never played Halo but my son wants it, so maybe I'll evesdrop from time to time, just to stay in this century from the past and all...I enjoyed your words today. It was almost like my breathing exercises - open mind, close mind, sigh, breathe, etc. You get it. Anyway I was reading the other day about the Socratic Method - this is where you just keep asking questions to arrive at an answer. I guess I always ask the wrong questions, but seriously - if you keep asking questions you will learn and find new answers. Open Mind - dust out - leave open - Smile!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! I have never played Halo but my son wants it, so maybe I&#8217;ll evesdrop from time to time, just to stay in this century from the past and all&#8230;I enjoyed your words today. It was almost like my breathing exercises &#8211; open mind, close mind, sigh, breathe, etc. You get it. Anyway I was reading the other day about the Socratic Method &#8211; this is where you just keep asking questions to arrive at an answer. I guess I always ask the wrong questions, but seriously &#8211; if you keep asking questions you will learn and find new answers. Open Mind &#8211; dust out &#8211; leave open &#8211; Smile!</p>
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		<title>By: p8indme</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1368</link>
		<dc:creator>p8indme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 00:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1368</guid>
		<description>Meta-systemic.Â  I like that.Â  You've made me think about my own mindedness...am I like one or the other, or a little more balanced.Â  I like to think I'm balance, but who knows...
Anyway, I was just stopping in to welcome you to the Grown-ups with Content blogring.Â  I hope you enjoy it, I can see you're going to be a great addition!Â  See you around!Â  ~D~</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meta-systemic.Â  I like that.Â  You&#8217;ve made me think about my own mindedness&#8230;am I like one or the other, or a little more balanced.Â  I like to think I&#8217;m balance, but who knows&#8230;<br />
Anyway, I was just stopping in to welcome you to the Grown-ups with Content blogring.Â  I hope you enjoy it, I can see you&#8217;re going to be a great addition!Â  See you around!Â  <sub>D</sub></p>
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		<title>By: lady_j81</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1367</link>
		<dc:creator>lady_j81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 23:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1367</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment. I see what you mean about sharing your deeper thoughts with a wide circle of individuals. I also think that there should be a place between open-mindedness and close-mindedness. I would like to believe that I'm there. Anyway, I guess I'm out now. Take care and God bless ~ Janna</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment. I see what you mean about sharing your deeper thoughts with a wide circle of individuals. I also think that there should be a place between open-mindedness and close-mindedness. I would like to believe that I&#8217;m there. Anyway, I guess I&#8217;m out now. Take care and God bless ~ Janna</p>
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		<title>By: DrPeppie12</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1366</link>
		<dc:creator>DrPeppie12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 16:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1366</guid>
		<description>tru dat.Â  good idea to point out that both views are both "closed-minded"... haha.Â  ahhh...philosophy. :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tru dat.Â  good idea to point out that both views are both &#8220;closed-minded&#8221;... haha.Â  ahhh&#8230;philosophy. :-D</p>
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		<title>By: YOYOY008</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1365</link>
		<dc:creator>YOYOY008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 11:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1365</guid>
		<description>Ryc: I like the analogy too, but then I read your entry and feel stupid. ~XD
Good stuff, though. Really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryc: I like the analogy too, but then I read your entry and feel stupid. ~XD<br />
Good stuff, though. Really.</p>
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		<title>By: doahsdeer</title>
		<link>http://shamuswrites.com/2005/05/03/monday-may-2-2005-at-0539-pm/#comment-1364</link>
		<dc:creator>doahsdeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 11:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://open-dialogue.com/blog/?p=444#comment-1364</guid>
		<description>We have learned to seeÂ polar opposites in theworld -Â concepts like good and evil, hot and cold, open- and closed-minded.Â  TheseÂ polar conceptsÂ offerÂ a convenient system for organizing and understanding the world.Â  Unfortunately these constructs greatly over-simplify the reality they are supposed to represent, by emphasizing, as you point out, the extremes, rather than the continuum.Â  Thanks for such a thoughtful post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have learned to seeÂ polar opposites in theworld <del>Â concepts like good and evil, hot and cold, open</del> and closed-minded.Â  TheseÂ polar conceptsÂ offerÂ a convenient system for organizing and understanding the world.Â  Unfortunately these constructs greatly over-simplify the reality they are supposed to represent, by emphasizing, as you point out, the extremes, rather than the continuum.Â  Thanks for such a thoughtful post.</p>
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